Lesley Stahl : You said that lobbyists owned politicians because they give them money. (你说过,游说组织拥有政客,因为他们给了钱。)
Donald Trump : Yeah. (对)
Lesley Stahl : You admitted you used to do it yourself . You have a transition team ——(你承认自己也曾经那样做过,你的过渡团队——)
Donald Trump : And when you say lobbyists, lobbyists and special interests.(当你说lobbyists ,lobbyists以及特殊利益。)
Lesley Stahl : And you want to get rid of all of that ? (你打算把这些都铲除掉?)
Donald Trump : I don't like it , no. (我不喜欢这些。)
Lesley Stahl : You don't like it, but your own transition team, it's filled with lobbyists. (你不喜欢,可是你的过渡团队内部就插入了许多说客。)
Donald Trump : That's the only people you have down there. (能用的人就只有这些。)
Lesley Stahl : You have lobbyists from Verizon, you have lobbyists from the oil gas industry, you have food lobby. (你的说客有来自Verizon的、油气产业的、食品行业的。)
Donald Trump : Sure. Everybody's a lobbyist down there---(是的,几乎所有人都是说客---)
Lesley Stahk : Well, wait (等一下)
Donald Trump:That's what they are. They"re lobbyists or special interests——(这就是真实的他们,说客或特殊利益——)
Lesley Stahl : On your own transition team. (在你的过渡团队里)
Donald Trump : ——we are trying to clean up Washington . Look ---(我们试图清理华盛顿,你看---)
Lesley Stahl : How can you claim ---(那你怎么能宣称---)
Donald Trump:Everything, everything down there---there are no people---there are all people that work--- that's the problem with the system, the system. Right now, we're going to clean it up. We're having restrictions on foreign money coming in, we're going to put on term limits, which a lot of people aren't happy about, but we're putting on term limits. We're doing a lot of things to clean up the system. But everybody that works for government, they then leave government and they become a lobbyist, essentially. I mean, the whole place is one big lobbyist. (我团队里的所有人---都有公职经历,这是体制问题,体制。现在,我们要清理这些,我们要限制政治与外国资金挂钩,我们还要引入任期制,这会让很多人不高兴,但我们会引用任期制。要清理体制,有很多事等着我们去做,我的团队里都是前政府官员,辞职后当了说客。说真的,整个团队就是一个巨大的游说组织。)
Lesley Stahl : But you're, but you're basically saying you have to rely on them, even though you want to get rid of them? (所以你是说,你得依靠他们,但又很想除掉他们?)
Donald Trump : I'm saying that they know the system right now, but we're going to phase that out. You have to phase it out. (我是说,他们对目前这个体制最熟悉,但未来我们要逐步把这个体制给淘汰掉。你必须得淘汰它。)
在狱中,阿布拉莫夫写了一部回忆录——《Capital Punishment》,在书中他也有提到“旋转门” (the revolving door)现象,那是美国游说政治中一个无法割除的痼疾,也是“ one of the greatest sources of corruption in government ”。许多政府官员离任后,进入游说公司当高薪职业说客,受客户委托,回来游说以前的官方同事,为客户图利。每一届的政府更迭,特别是涉及党派轮替改选后,前朝的臣子刚刚走出国会大门,转身就进入K街各游说机构的小门了。媒体戏称这现象为 :“政府办公大楼和游说公司之间,仅隔一扇旋转门” 。